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  • close - Tuesday, July 2, 2019 - link

    "it remains to be seen when either of the companies come up with viable technologies to make computer memory as well as competitive DRAM chips"

    Sure, and on the off chance they do they will suddenly end up on the "national security threat" list, "backdoors built in the memory" and all that. Isn't that the MAGA strategy? If you can't beat them, choke them?
  • DigitalFreak - Tuesday, July 2, 2019 - link

    Pretty much. The Chinese are also paying the US 25% tariffs, according to our Dear Leader. :-/
  • eek2121 - Wednesday, July 3, 2019 - link

    Trump won't be in office much longer. Then it won't matter. There are far fewer idiots willing to vote for him this time. Even folks in rural areas who traditionally would have voted for him were hurt by his policies and many have stated that would not vote for him again. Even if he somehow survives re-election, he'll be facing impeachment.
  • Gondalf - Wednesday, July 3, 2019 - link

    Tell me the name of a Democratic competitor that could dethronize Trump. For now there isn't one.
    Deal with a 8 years nightmare.
  • cpugod - Wednesday, July 3, 2019 - link

    Underestimate the stupidity of America at one's own peril. It may be 35-40%, but they're an amassed hive of idiots and thus making them the greatest threat to America... but on topic better/faster/cheaper RAM will be good... and I guess the Dept. of Commerce is crushing the Chinese DRAM makers so those coal miners can develop the next generation RAM systems and sub-systems?
  • Yojimbo - Tuesday, July 2, 2019 - link

    China has a reasonably simple and brilliant strategy to game the global markets and take advantage of the short-sighted nature of Western democracies and corporate structure. The governments and companies should have put a stop to it long ago but there was too much greed and complacency, as well as incentive to look the other way because of weaknesses in the way Western democracies and corporations work.

    What China does is to use their vast market potential as a carrot. But they don't allow open access to the market, they make foreign companies sign minority interest joint ventures with Chinese firms. The Chinese firms gain expertise, contacts, etc, which is fine, though the required joint venture thing is something other countries should not put up with. Then the Chinese acquire the IP and various secrets of the foreign firm through one way or another. It could be purchase, but it is often a forced transfer to have access to the market, and there seems to be a lot of looking the other way when things get stolen, or using the court system to levy charges against a company which can get resolved one way or another. Then that IP and expertise shows up in other Chinese firms with products that compete with the foreign firm. If the sector is considered a strategic area then the government will heavily subsidize the Chinese firms in the industry and cut off access to the Chinese market for foreign firms. Then the Chinese firms have a larger total addressable market and they also have the financial backing of the Chinese state. Once foreign competition is driven out they can dial back the subsidies and apply the resources to the next strategic sector.

    Long term the Chinese want to change their education system and focus more on innovation. But as of now, they mostly come up with the viable technologies so quickly by using the above strategies, i.e., copying and stealing them. And they will get away with it as long as they are allowed.
  • zzark - Tuesday, July 2, 2019 - link

    i think India also require partnership for local market access, no one seems to have issue with that
  • Skeptical123 - Tuesday, July 2, 2019 - link

    Almost any economist has issues with protectionist policies like these and the Indian government is not actively trying to acquire or steal as much IP as possible
  • zzark - Tuesday, July 2, 2019 - link

    yeah but India also not investing in other countries, china is funding many foreign universities and companies, my university received several millions from Chinese firm for research and development, which gives them right for any patent developed using those funds, India forced local funding from foreign firm and force design and development with local partners, this exactly what china does
  • R0H1T - Tuesday, July 2, 2019 - link

    >Chinese firm for research and development, which gives them right for any patent developed using those funds

    No, not always. It largely depends one how the contract is structured. While the funding should give them access to the patent, it doesn't necessarily mean they can use the (entire) IP.

    >India forced local funding from foreign firm and force design and development with local partners

    You seem to be making things up as you go, especially as you don't even know half of it! What's forced "local funding" & force design & development?

    >this exactly what china does

    Not even close!
  • Skeptical123 - Tuesday, July 2, 2019 - link

    Are you a china shill bot? Yes, I know what India is doing. It's a common thing for developing countries to do. Look at foreign beer prices in India. A common case example in game consoles in Brazil for a decade plus has been well over a thousand dollars USD due to protectionist tariff levied on them. Also, it does not matter what China is doing anecdotally at your university what matters is what they doing on a global scale. It's not worth continuing this comment train. You clearly think you know what you're talking about or are a bot...
  • tuxRoller - Thursday, July 4, 2019 - link

    What's the reasoning behind the console pricing? Are there Brazilian competitors?
  • jospoortvliet - Friday, July 5, 2019 - link

    Just government income I think, they tax imports quite heavily overall, and electronics in particular. Part of the reason might also be to entice hardware makers to do assembly in Brazil itself.
  • R0H1T - Tuesday, July 2, 2019 - link

    Your info seems totally out of place, while there is some restriction in terms of 100% investments in many sectors - the vast majority of them allow 74-100% FDI including telecom, automobiles, infrastructure, phones, consumer durables et al. We also don't "ask" other firms to hand over their IP for "national security" purposes or better yet "pride" 🙄
  • Yojimbo - Wednesday, July 3, 2019 - link

    Did you read what I wrote? I even said "which is fine" for that small part of the whole situation, and yet you replied with "but India requires partnerships". Uhh...
  • teldar - Tuesday, July 2, 2019 - link

    I'm not sure I've ever seen anyone else state this. This has been going on for years and needs to be brought to an end. It's ridiculous. It's the way China operates and should be viewed as global extortion.
  • s.yu - Wednesday, July 3, 2019 - link

    I agree, but for various reasons most people around the globe are kept in the dark by generally politically motivated misinformation.
  • Holliday75 - Friday, July 5, 2019 - link

    Funny part is Trump is the first President I've seen push back as hard as he has and people complain about it.
  • jospoortvliet - Friday, July 5, 2019 - link

    Other presidents pushed back, they just didn’t have FOX news extol their virtues to the same degree - everybody thought these trade deals were boring economics until trump managed to make it interesting and a nationalist thing. In practice, for example the big Asian trade deal from Obama was meant to curtail China heavily - and thus trump, pulling out, has given China a big gift.

    His Tarifs haven’t had any effect yet and he fails to work with European allies. Plus he makes the trade thing a matter of national pride, essentially making it much harder for China to agree with anything he demands. In short - sure, trump makes more noise. But he has done less useful things for US business with regards to China as previous presidents.
  • ZolaIII - Wednesday, July 3, 2019 - link

    US didn't ban any Chinese firm that stole IP's or didn't pay for them. They banned Huawei which has by far the biggest 5G IP portfolio that whose self developed by enormous R&D investments building research centers in China and across the EU. Chinese government didn't exactly nursed nor helped Huawei much, they achieved it them self by making a premium brand of them self & investing extra profit in R&D. On the other hand you have cort already ruled about QC uncompetitive practices and monopoly and its much more backed up by government than let's say Huawei while using properly RTOS (that whose Open Source before) for it's modems which contains beyond reasonable doubt security threats. So sugar you are not allowed, nor paying but it won't last for long as Chinese will develop everything & push you out.
  • Yojimbo - Wednesday, July 3, 2019 - link

    Yes qcom has done anti-competituve things and in the US there is the rule of law to punish them. Not so in China. China helps Huawei with the anticompetitive practices. They most certaintly did nurse them. China's hands are all over Huawei. But don't talk about it:
    https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/c68jg-MUaH4Z-xJN82Lopw
  • ZolaIII - Thursday, July 4, 2019 - link

    US hands are all over QC (social, military government project) all publicly documented and behind it as a back door tool. Is it a corruption? Yes. Is it a corporate protectionism? Yes. Is there a hidden interest in doing so? Probably yes. But hire is a catch if a 5G infrastructure deployment gets future delayed QC won't be able to sell any modems, with big cut in earnings because they cannot make profits like before from their IP portfolio this would lead to the 80% cut in earnings which also means that couldn't finance future R&D. Then greedy investors take their money somehow else and QC fall's in bankruptcy and with it US losses both supremacy and control. On the other hand Huawei survives as China, India and Russia are more than half the world's market. It's a same dirty practice all over the world only details differ so don't believe government(s) & there's no such thing as a good corporation's only the profit & interest.
  • Yojimbo - Thursday, July 4, 2019 - link

    You can just state whatever but it doesn't make it so. The US government contracting qualcomm to do work is a lot different from the situation with Huawei. Meanwhile, just take a look at Huawei's stated ownership structure and see if it makes sense. I bet you are pretty mad at Huawei not being allowed to supply 5G infrastructure in the US. Ask yourself who besides Huawei and other Chinese companies has had access to supply infrastructure in China for the last few years. They only allow in the companies when they haven't already "acquired" the technology to do it themselves. That is not free market. Any other country putting up with it is a fool.
  • ZolaIII - Thursday, July 4, 2019 - link

    Sure thing it's a different thing... US is so sure Chinese would do it with Huawei or someone else because they doing it all ready probably true mentioned QC. I stated simple logical facts and a reasonable doubt no question about it. I don't give a s*** about Huawei nor using their products (since rebranding) while leaving others including GSM operator's to choose for them self. Hire in EU you still have a freedom of choice & not even God can take that away. I never stated Chinese are flowers. After what happened to Huawei the world will certainly look otherwise on technology development and won't allow to be in anyone's monopoly nor dependent of it's good will. Naturally open hardware is only responsible solutions & magic is already happening with RISC V. US will indubitably lose the last monopoly it had.
  • s.yu - Wednesday, July 3, 2019 - link

    "Chinese government didn't exactly nursed nor helped Huawei much, they achieved it them self by making a premium brand of them self & investing extra profit in R&D"
    LMFAO?
    You have absolutely zero idea how things work in China just as you've demonstrated last time. On a micro scale everything is incredibly bureaucratic (some think Canada is bad enough, no, China is worse), you cannot possibly, "legally" start a business without connections and/or bribes and Huawei's been given green lights all the way meaning the Party is heavily invested. They've also stolen a lot of IP from at least Cisco and as I mentioned before has uncapped debt capacity from China Development Bank, essentially their pocket money provided by the Party.
  • ZolaIII - Thursday, July 4, 2019 - link

    They started on docks putting their logo stickers on cheap junk, pulled their s*** together made a quality stand, their own semiconductor manufacturing and rebranded it self increasing prices for their products. It all went quite well for them and then they started to make huge profit & invested it in R&D how in their own base semiconductor unit also in resurch instituts in land and across the Europe also funding numerous academic projects in many countries. Now when the fruit is mature and better than competition US made bold claims as an excuse to do a corporate protectionism against each & every apostolate of free market, fare trade & competition driven progress. You want to tell me how some morons from the party with a pocket change made from Huawei what it is today? You really need a reality check! The party official's are mostly corrupt but they don't give, just take a cut when ever they can & from who ever they can but funny thing about Chinese corruption is that it all returns back to the state true state property at the end & it whose the same before communism in the time's of monarchy.
    Cisco? The same Cisco who settled dispute with Huawei with of court agreement, who is cough having serious security exploits in their network gear firmwares and whose CEO protested publicly out loud against US government practices? The things work the same way in the US, China and pretty much the rest of the world, no traditional values, no moral or ethics... You should read a Nitche a bit inside coming here and acting as a man from the mountain.
  • s.yu - Thursday, July 4, 2019 - link

    You didn't understand what I said, I suggest you stick to Russian forums.
  • ZolaIII - Thursday, July 4, 2019 - link

    O I did... By the way the man from the mountains is Niches sinonim for a monkey. I am European.
  • asdfzxh - Saturday, August 1, 2020 - link

    You have a chinese last name but you seem like some idiotic pgskn bastardization. Cisco lost IP suits against Huawei on the AMERICAN SOIL, they just can't compete. On the other hand, USA invaded Huawei servers via ShotGiant etc programs to steal things. You freaking morons. "Huawei stealing tech that the US doesn't even know exist" - you definitely have no brain.
  • PeachNCream - Tuesday, July 2, 2019 - link

    It's a good thing to see China working toward independence so it isn't subjected to the currently inconsistent actions of the US because it depends so heavily on it for key items. What I find amusing is that certain people in he US are clamoring for fair treatment from a position of economic superiority out of fear of losing the fairly meaningless title of globally dominant economic power all while forgetting that the natural order of things is inherently unfair and that there are no such things as rights or proper treatment beyond constructs we humans create in order to apply a layer of order to the random chaos of normal universal operations.
  • s.yu - Wednesday, July 3, 2019 - link

    "from a position of economic superiority"
    No that's China. China's GDP(PPP) has surpassed the US a few years ago and from high taxes and an authoritarian rule the government is far more powerful than that of the US. It practices typical state capitalism while using free trade as a facade to condemn US countermeasures.
  • hanselltc - Wednesday, July 3, 2019 - link

    It is really interesting when these people within NA say that, without noting how Google and Facebook are both banned in China.
  • Yojimbo - Wednesday, July 3, 2019 - link

    Many people in NA are taught to despise themselves. Meanwhile, they know little at all about China, good, bad, or indifferent.
  • PeachNCream - Monday, July 8, 2019 - link

    The US would be wise to also ban Google and Facebook due to how much data mining activity both companies are performing on clueless or willfully ignorant users.
  • asdfzxh - Saturday, August 1, 2020 - link

    What? You from CCP?

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