Miscellaneous Aspects and Concluding Remarks

Networking and storage are aspects that may be of vital importance in specific PC use-cases. The Khadas Mind Premium by itself comes only with the Intel AX211 Wi-Fi 6E / Bluetooth controller. The Mind Dock adds a Realtek-based 2.5 Gbps LAN port.

On the storage side, the Khadas Mind does have support for a PCIe 4.0 x4 NVMe SSD as well as a PCIe 3.0 x4 one. The latter slot is unpopulated. Khadas uses the Western Digital WD SN740 M.2 2230 SSD as the primary drive. Cooling these SSDs within the space constraints imposed by the form-factor of the slim core computing unit is a big challenge, as shown in the SSD temperature graph in the previous section. From a benchmarking perspective, we provide results from the WPCstorage test of SPECworkstation 3.1. This benchmark replays access traces from various programs used in different verticals and compares the score against the one obtained with a 2017 SanDisk 512GB SATA SSD in the SPECworkstation 3.1 reference system.

SPECworkstation 3.1.0 - WPCstorage SPEC Ratio Scores

The graphs above present results for different verticals, as grouped by SPECworkstation 3.1. The storage workload consists of 60 subtests. Access traces from CFD solvers and programs such as Catia, Creo, and Soidworks come under 'Product Development'. Storage access traces from the NAMD and LAMMPS molecular dynamics simulator are under the 'Life Sciences' category. 'General Operations' includes access traces from 7-Zip and Mozilla programs. The 'Energy' category replays traces from the energy-02 SPECviewperf workload. The 'Media and Entertainment' vertical includes Handbrake, Maya, and 3dsmax. The overall rating puts the WD SN740 in the middle of the pack - having gotten surpassed by systems equipped with SSDs using their own DRAM for the flash translation layer (FTL). The SN740 does excel in some of the workloads such as Life Sciences and Media & Entertainment.

Closing Thoughts

As a matter of editorial policy, we do not cover crowdfunding campaigns. Some exceptions are made once in a blue moon - typically when the company behind the campaign is an established vendor using crowdfunding as a promotion tool instead of actually relying on the collected money for product development. Khadas falls under this category, as the company already has many products under the belt. The company has put up the Mind Premium / Standard, the Mind Dock, and Mind Graphics for order on a crowdfunding site, with the core computing unit and the dock shipping next month. Mind Graphics is slated to ship in June 2024.

In determining the value proposition of any product, we typically present the pros and cons before discussing the pricing. However, the Mind Premium is not a typical product. It straddles two different product categories - mini-PCs, as well as notebooks. At the same time, Khadas has plans for a number of tightly-coupled peripherals to complement the core computing unit for a variety of use-cases. Significant context is lost in the discussion if the cost is not taken into account while discussing these use-cases. The Mind Premium configuration evaluated in this piece is priced at $1099, and the Mind Dock is priced at $179. These are the retail prices (there are discounts on the crowdfunding site, but we will refrain from considering that while discussing the value proposition aspect).

At $1099, the pricing is essentially equivalent to that of an ultrabook without a screen. Similar to an ultrabook, the number of ports is limited. While we have no complaints on that front, the main issue is that all current-gen ultrabooks have full-featured Thunderbolt 4 or USB4 ports. The Mind Premium and Mind Standard fail miserably on that front. We could find no credible reason (even from the platform design viewpoint) as to why the Raptor Lake-P SoC's native Thunderbolt ports are rendered ineffective in the core computing unit. Neither Type-C port supports PCIe tunneling, with one of them restricted to USB 3.2 Gen 2 (10 Gbps) speeds and the other to USB 2.0. The display output is carried on the ports, but that is scant consolation when the ports don't support the full 40 Gbps speeds promised by the SoC. Khadas does support Thunderbolt 4 in the upcoming Mind Graphics unit, but the shipping date for that is a few quarters away. In this context, it is not clear how Khadas can justify the ultrabook premium.

The Mind Link connector interface is definitely an engineering effort worthy of appreciation. Khadas is promising support for up to 8 PCIe Gen5 lanes (an impressive 256 Gbps theoretically) through the interface - even more than what is promised by Thunderbolt 5. Due to the limitations of Raptor Lake-P, the current Mind Premium and Mind Standard only support 4 PCIe Gen4 lanes (64 Gbps). While it is not meant as a direct Thunderbolt replacement (Mind Link is a much more tightly coupled interface), the use-cases from an end-user perspective have close equivalents in the Thunderbolt ecosystem. That brings to focus two issues - the Mind Dock we have evaluated in this article does not bring out the full benefits of the Mind Link interface in the core computing unit. At best, it acts as a USB 3.2 Gen 2 (10 Gbps) dock with an Alt-DP to HDMI converter. No functionality in the dock takes advantage of the PCIe Gen4 x4 link being tunneled through. So, we have not been able to evaluate all the promised features of the Mind Link interface. The second aspect is that the Mind Link interface and protocol are proprietary. This creates a vendor lock-in, as consumers have to wait for Khadas to release peripherals taking advantage of this interface. Though Thunderbolt (with its cable-based approach) can't achieve some of the use-cases promised by Mind Link (such as the xPlay 2-in-1 peripheral), consumers have a wide variety of device choices from multiple vendors to extend the functionality of their host system.

The RAM is soldered, which may be a deal-breaker for some users. That said, 32 GB of RAM in the Mind Premium is high-end for most mini-PC use-cases. The use of a M.2 2230 SSD as the pre-installed (not easily user-accessible) storage drive is a bit puzzling. High-performance SSDs require DRAM for FTL, and most commonly available 2230 ones (including the WD SN740 used by Khadas) are DRAM-less. The user-accessible M.2 2230 slot for the secondary storage drive is perfectly acceptable.

The default BIOS settings could also do with some optimizations on the idle power consumption front - both the Arena Canyon NUC and the ASRock Industrial NUC BOX-1360P/D5 have significantly lower idling numbers despite providing much better connectivity options.

With the disappointments out of the way, it is time to focus on the positives. The build quality and industrial design of the Mind Premium as well as the Mind Dock are both impressive - among the best we have seen in the mini-PC space. The thermal solution is excellent, with core temperatures stabilizing around 80C even when the package power is sustained at 28W. Most Raptor Lake-P mini-PCs have the SoC configured for a 40W PL1 even in the UCFF space. Khadas has played it relatively safe at 28W - so the performance is a bit behind what is offered by systems such as the Arena Canyon NUC and the ASRock Industrial NUC BOX-1360P/D5. Khadas markets the Mind's core computing unit as a modular portable workstation. A 40W PL1 could have delivered better performance worthy of a workstation, but the sleek form-factor would probably throw a spanner in the works. That said, given the use-cases considered by Khadas, the form-factor is quite important. The 28W PL1 setting is a reasonable compromise.

In creating the Mind product family, Khadas has embarked on an ambitious journey. The company's vision is worthy of plaudits, and the Mind Premium / Mind Dock are able to provide users with a teaser. Ideally, the company should be shipping the Mind Graphics now to be able to convince consumers about the benefits of the Mind Link interface. By the time it arrives in mid-2024, Intel would probably be shipping new mobile processors and the current Mind Premium would be outdated. The company could have partially addressed that aspect by shipping the core computing unit with full-featured Thunderbolt 4 ports. Without that, the current unit and the Mind Dock are a tough sell despite the other impressive technical aspects of the platform. The currently available components are a good start, but we would like to see the Mind Graphics in action before forming a firm opinion about the Mind ecosystem.

Power Consumption and Thermal Characteristics
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  • wr3zzz - Thursday, September 14, 2023 - link

    This is what Intel NUC should've been. 450 grams, sleek look, magnetic snap-on interface for compatible docking station, e-GPU, portable and fixed displays.
  • hubick - Thursday, September 14, 2023 - link

    Thunderbolt eGPU's and stuff are already niche enough, and being invested in that ecosystem, the proprietary connector is a deal breaker for me. I fully lost interest when I saw the RAM was soldered. It's a shame they went proprietary, cuz this looks neat.
  • meacupla - Thursday, September 14, 2023 - link

    It has 32GB of LPDDR5 5200. How much more do you want?
  • Samus - Friday, September 15, 2023 - link

    Seriously, and there aren't really any options out there for high speed low profile memory. I'd take soldered LPDDR5 over any regular DDR4\5 socket, just make sure you get 16GB-32GB depending on your future use case. Nobody is going to keep running this thing 10 years from now when 32GB won't suffice.

    Meanwhile most PC's ship with 16GB and I still see 8GB in laptops, which has been pretty standard for...10 years.
  • PeachNCream - Thursday, September 14, 2023 - link

    This was absolutely sent to Future for the free advertising that an article about it would generate AND it's a pretty stupid idea since, well laptop and desktop workstations both exist and offer either more flexibility and the same relative compute power (typically with a larger company's backing) OR more compute power for the same cost. The gimmicky form factor is only a gimmick and nothing more.
  • ganeshts - Thursday, September 14, 2023 - link

    'Product sent for free advertising' - The way PR works is that the agency is tasked with promoting product awareness. 'Advertising' - at least in the TV / Internet age - refers to something that focuses purely on the positives of a product and pushes viewers / readers to go out and purchase the product. It is always a good idea to approach any article or review with wariness, but it looks like you want to see malice where there is none.

    PR agencies and reps pitch countless products for review, and we don't have enough resources or man-hours to justify an AnandTech-level review for each of those pitched products. Personally, I take up a product for review only if it offers something new or novel. There is absolutely no doubt that the Mind Family of products is something that has not been attempted successfully before. It may appear gimmicky, but the engineering effort towards creating a 256 Gbps external peripheral interface is definitely not something to be viewed with derision (which is what your post comes across as).

    Every time a company tries to create something new with focus on multiple product categories - 'a jack of all trades', there is always going to be a 'master of one' competitor. The question is whether the new product can evolve over multiple generations to re-frame the paradigm. (I would take the example of an iPod that appeared when there were other MP3 players in the market too. In fact, other than branding and industrial design, it wasn't offering too much novelty. But, that slowly metamorphosed into the iPhone juggernaut over a 15 - 20 year timeframe).

    The reason I am typing out this lengthy response is not because I have a vested interest in promoting the Mind family. In fact, you can see we do not even carry a link to the crowdfunding site where Khadas is currently selling the system before moving it to the Khadas shop / Amazon. Rather, I want to make sure readers are able to see the big picture as well as detailed specifics on where Khadas should be improving. I would say that in the last 5 - 7 years, this mini-PC is probably the one that I have spent the most time in reviewing - just because it is very different from what is usually put out in this space. And, I would love readers to understand that.

    Coming back to the 'advertising' claims - did you even read the concluding section? Khadas actually links to various reviews from their crowfunding campaign. I suspect it is unlikely they are going to link to our review. We have always aimed to present a balanced view of products and its capabilities. As it stands today, Khadas still has much to prove. That said, there is plenty of potential and the Mind Link interface is certainly praiseworthy for its capabilities (it is better than external OCuLink and Thunderbolt 5 from a technical viewpoint).
  • meacupla - Thursday, September 14, 2023 - link

    When do you expect to see the GPU and monitor docks become available?
    When they do, are you going to review those?
  • ganeshts - Friday, September 15, 2023 - link

    The GPU should be available in June 2024. There is no ETA yet for the other peripherals.

    As for review, it depends on Khadas. If they offer, I will definitely take it up [ as we do have a concrete idea of how eGPU enclosures need to be evaluated - https://www.anandtech.com/show/13944 ]
  • meacupla - Friday, September 15, 2023 - link

    oof, that is a rough launch window for the GPU dock. They should have stuck to an already established connector, like occulink.
  • Samus - Friday, September 15, 2023 - link

    Probably not worth considering the i7-1360P. It is (in real world performance) virtually identical to the i5-1340P.

    I have two notebooks with an i5-1240P and i7-1260P respectively and you literally would never be able to tell them apart in any task. The only difference as far as I can tell is slightly higher base and boost clock, and the i7 has more L3 cache that doesn't seem to mean anything in most applications. The GPU core has an additional core (so 96 EU's over 80 EU's in the i5.) They are otherwise identical CPU's with the same P and E cores.

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