AMD Ryzen 5000 and Zen 3 on Nov 5th: +19% IPC, Claims Best Gaming CPU
by Dr. Ian Cutress on October 8, 2020 12:26 PM ESTNew Single Thread Performance Champion?
Aside from rough microarchitectural performance claims, we don’t typically talk much about first-party benchmark numbers – they are unverified and we’d rather hold station until the reviews where we can talk about our own testing. There are a couple of numbers that I do want to pull out of AMD’s marketing however, if only to put some markers in the sand compared to numbers we already have.
One of the favorite benchmarks that both Intel and AMD have used over the years is Cinebench, a test scene render for Cinema4D. AMD has been promoting it with Ryzen because it holds a performance lead, whereas Intel prefers to highlight it as an example of a less-than-ideal representative workload. We use it in our test suite as only one of a number of rendering workloads, covering a large user base. From our numbers, Intel and AMD’s best processors have the following results in a single threaded test:
| CineBench R20 Single Thread Score (As Measured at AnandTech) |
||||
| AnandTech | uArch | Process | 1C Turbo | Score |
| Intel Core i7-1185G7 | Tiger Lake | Intel 10nm SuperFin | 4.8 GHz | 595pts |
| Intel Core i9-10900K | Comet Lake | Intel 14+++ | 5.3 GHz | 538pts |
| AMD Ryzen 9 3950X | Zen2 | TSMC 7nm | 4.7 GHz | 536pts |
| AMD Ryzen 9 3900XT | Zen2 | TSMC 7nm | 4.7 GHz | 523pts |
(Note that in the single threaded test, the power limits ultimately should not apply because one core should not consume all the power of the chip. For the Tiger Lake processor, because this is a nominal 15 W TDP part with a 50 W turbo, this actually does go above the power limit with one core active, as it scores 554. As a result, the 50 W mode with a 28 W TDP was used and scores 595. This is more akin to a desktop processor anyway.)
AMD’s number for its Ryzen 9 5900X, at 4.8 GHz turbo, is 631.
| CineBench R20 Single Thread Score (As Measured by AMD) |
||||
| AMD | uArch | Process | 1C Turbo | Score |
| AMD Ryzen 9 5900X | Zen3 | TSMC 7nm | 4.8 GHz | 631pts |
Generation-on-generation, this would be a 17.8% performance increase. Over Intel’s highest performing desktop Core i9, that would be a lead of 17.3%. Over Intel’s latest generation microarchitecture, Tiger Lake, this is a 6% performance increase at the same frequency.
Whichever way you slice it, whether you consider the lead a 17% lead from desktop-to-desktop, or a 6% lead from best-to-best, one thing is clear that if this result is correct, AMD will have the single threaded performance crown.
The previous time that AMD truly held this title was over a decade ago, and ever since the company has been playing catch-up. The argument over having enough single thread performance, if these results are correct, is one that AMD can fight toe-to-toe on. Not only that, but in AMD’s marketing materials, they believe it is a clear cut winner.
Mainstream Gaming
This sort of metric also extends out to gaming, which has been a contentious issue since Ryzen enabled AMD to play in this market again. AMD’s numbers here focus on 1080p gaming for two reasons: firstly it’s an area where CPUs are more important for performance, but secondly because they cite that 1080p monitors are still the bulk of monitor sales for gamers, especially when looking at high refresh rates.
For 1080p high quality gaming, AMD is making two clear claims.
Firstly, when comparing the Ryzen 9 5900X to the Ryzen 9 3900XT, the new processor is stated to boost average frame rates anywhere from +5% up to +50%, with an average around +26%.
Secondly, when comparing the Ryzen 9 5900X to the Core i9-10900K, the new processor is stated to win by 7%, with individual benchmarks varying from a 3% loss to a 21% win.
This latter one is important, as when the Core i9-10900K was released, there as a strong marketing message that this was the best gaming CPU available on the market. Now AMD believes it can make that claim and take the crown. The important element for AMD to manage however is availability – the availability of the 10900K has been so varied that Intel quietly released the 10850K to manage expectations. If AMD can put enough Ryzen 9 5900X processors into the hands of people that want them, then Intel has a bigger step to climb to regain the title when it will reportedly launch its Rocket Lake processors in Q1 next year.
AMD’s Claims
As always, we will wait until we have the hardware on hand to form our own conclusions. These results are AMD first party tests, so the usual standards of caution apply. AMD has a strong history of making accurate claims, confirmed by our testing in recent years, but we still recommend waiting for our review.
Chipset Support
As always, AMD is keen to highlight that the new Ryzen 5000 processors are supported in currently available motherboards. Due to the long life cycle of the AM4 platform, there has been some segmentation between chipset and processor support, however AMD this time around has made it very clear when it comes to supported chipsets. AMD has split its instructions in two.
For 500 series chipset users, motherboards firmware that supports the new hardware should already be available. Users will need to ensure that a minimum AGESA version of 1.0.8.0 is installed which will ensure that the system will boot. For full support and performance, users should update to AGESA 1.1.0.0 for the best experience.
For 400 series chipset users, AMD is currently hard at work with motherboard partners to update their firmware stacks. AMD expects the first beta BIOSes with Ryzen 5000 support to be made available from January, however part of this will be motherboard manufacturer dependent. Full release BIOSes will be at a later date. When asked if the new 5000-series firmware for 400-series chipsets will remove support for older processors, AMD said it would be on a case-by-case basis depending on how the motherboard vendor wanted to enable support.
For users that purchase motherboards that do not have the required BIOS support for Ryzen 5000, the Processor Loan Boot Kit programme will still be available.
A Word on Sticker Shock
It is hard not to notice that AMD is raising the prices of its hardware for this new generation. The company believes that it is truly in a winning position, and that better hardware in the market deserves to be priced at a level that matches this. For any competitive business owner with a belief of a better product, finding that right balance of demand and price is always critical to how to manage sales and ultimately market share.
Anand once said a very insightful phrase to me. “There are no bad products, only bad prices.”
So with AMD asking for another $50 on these processors, is that a lot to ask?
AMD’s argument is that, for performance per dollar, it still retains a healthy lead over its competition in each market segment. The spokespersons were keen to point out that they still remember where AMD has come from to reach this level of performance, and understand that a metric such as performance per dollar has always been high on the list of requirements from its most passionate users. The difference this time around is that, because AMD is claiming it has the best performance on the market, it can now charge that slight premium but still offer a more compelling product.
The success of AMD’s Ryzen 3000 family is easy to see. It offers a very attractive performance per dollar proposition, and nine of the top ten processors on Amazon’s best sellers list are from AMD. Here’s that list, with the pricing as given in our buyer’s guide last week:
| Price Options [#] is Amazon Best-Seller Position |
||
| # | AMD | Price |
| [1] | Ryzen 5 3600 | $205 |
| [2] | Ryzen 7 3700XT | $295 |
| [3] | Ryzen 5 3600X | $209 |
| [4] | Ryzen 5 2600 | $149 |
| [5] | Ryzen 9 3900X | $430 |
| [6] | Ryzen 7 3800XT | $340 |
| [7] | Ryzen 5 3600XT | $230 |
| [8] | Ryzen 7 2700X | $218 |
| [9] | Ryzen 3 3200G | $100 |
This is an impressive list, however there a theme I have noticed. Starting from the top, the first four best-selling processors are below $299. The lowest Ryzen 5000-series processor in this launch comes in at the $299 price bracket. Out of that top nine, only #5 and #6 are above $299. This is a clear indication of where the bulk of the market is, especially as AMD is likely in increasing both market share and revenue.
In discussing the pricing with AMD, I noted that the new Ryzen 5000 processors are not only replacing hardware with a $50 higher MSRP, but also replacing hardware that routinely sells below MSRP. This makes the differences more akin to $90-$150. This of course changes some of the dynamic when we start discussing performance per dollar.
AMD’s response to this commentary was the one I would have given if I were in their position. The Ryzen 5000 series is a new product, and the claim of market leading performance means that the early adopters and AMD enthusiasts that want the best on day one will be able to get the hardware they desire. During the initial phase in almost all launches, users looking for the best bang-for-buck build will always look to purchasing the previous generation, which is almost always offered at a good discount as stock transfers to the latest product. AMD believes it has set the pricing of the new Zen 3 processors where it remains competitive, but still balances the message that AMD claims it has the best, most efficient processors.
What Now?
For users looking for processors under that $299 mark, or more offerings at the 65 W TDP, we expect AMD to look at expanding the Ryzen 5000 product list over the next six months. No exact word from AMD was given about what might come in the future. I even asked about Threadripper with Zen 3, but as expected there was no official comment.
As for the processors announced today, November 5th is the date to put in your diary. On this date, reviews will go live, details about the microarchitecture will be revealed, and processors will be available. We’re already pre-testing a LOT of hardware for our review. Let us know what comparisons matter most to you.
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TheJian - Thursday, October 8, 2020 - link
Raise prices more. 660m TTM net income is crap with 20% share of x86 vs. Intels 80% making 23.6B NET INCOME. AMD should be making 5B+ net income right now! The last time they made a billion NET INCOME quarter was Dec2009 (NVDA had 4 1B+ Q's 2018, their stock price then 240-280, ridiculous today at 3.3B TTM, should be making 8B at 550-600 or WTH??), and they haven't made a BILLION YEAR since. It is comic the share price is where they should be if they WERE making ~5-6B on that 20% market share, but instead they make PEANUTS. Because of great products with BAD PRICING. Time to up next gen $100 each especially if you make it to 5nm at TSMC before Intel. I might say 150ea (across the whole lineup, put them ON TOP of this 5000 series, not replace them!) if you use that 5nm to GROW the chip on the gpu side on some models as your share should be near 30% in 12mo if you keep making KINGS like Dirk Meyer said in 2011 when you fired him for it...LOL. You can see, you charge for KINGS, the losers get discounted from day 1.https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/AMD/amd/...
https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/AMD/amd/...
Dec 2009 when they had that 1B+ quarter the stock was $9 (pretty much the high from 2008-2016). Shares have diluted 2x. So basically your share is worth half of that 9 if they still had that 1B QUARTER today. But today it takes them 4 quarters (TTM) to make 660mil. Now remove the fabs, most assets (old leased lands sold off to survive etc).
IE 2006, they had 13.5B assets, now just hit 6.5B 2020 (were 3B 2015! OUCH!). So terrible income vs. 2009 Q4, 1/2 assets today vs, 14yrs ago, outstanding shares doubled (that's like saying your $100 bill in your pocket is only worth 50 now!) and on and on. Quit making console crap with single digit to mid teens margins (AMD said it multiple times first gen, see no different this time), and direct that R&D to KING cpu/gpu ALWAYS. NV passed stating it robs from core R&D, so they won gpu last 7yrs since console R&D started basically right? AMD watts/heat/noise always off if perf close, and usually everything off vs. NV and lost the cpu race for that same time until recently with ryzen. Stop wasting time on console chips made for $95-110 last gen and you making $10-15. Start making reticle limit gpus and larger cpus so you can charge like NV/INTC and make NET INCOME like them too! This isn't rocket science. KINGS price like KINGS. It is a massive mistake AGAIN that AMD didn't go to reticle limit at TSMC while NV couldn't do it at samsung do to yields on 8nm (forced under 630mm^2). You could have been king, but went stupid again. No raising prices for you on that small shat that will be discounted from day 1 vs. nvda. You should have upped the bandwidth (256/384busses) and went to 800mm^2+ and CHARGED for it. Instead your new gpus already 2nd rate, slow mem, slow bus, low bandwidth, small, shenanigans to make up for it being explained right and left. 192bit for a flagship in 2020 with GDDR6? When you design a loser, expect loser pricing. With 256/384bit and a reticle limit you'd be winning everything at 1080p and laughing about $100 more than NV's 3090 price tag and calling it a bargain as you smoked them with 800mm^2 on a arguably BETTER 7nm TSMC vs. Sammy 8n yield issue process right?
Again, make some better moves Lisa Su, who made 59mil for 660mil NET INCOME for the last 12 months. Shareholders should be asking her why she isn't making 6B NET INCOME for AMD at that wage. See other CEO's. Intel for example 23.6B Swan made 66mil. Uh, that don't look so good for Lisa right? Intel's ceo barely beating her but like, 50x NET INCOME for company. He's earning it, she's...Well they're going in the right direction, but the stock should be $2-4 at 660mil. I just proved it. There is far more stats, look at 15yrs of data there at macrotrends. Nobody should be whining about AMD charging more for a winning cpu, and if they don't the stock deserves a massive tanking back to 2008-2016 prices for all the reasons above. Someone explain this math to me for today's share price. Is AMD hiding billions of net income yearly somewhere? Is there a single stat that is better than a decade ago? Net income wise, since 2008 it looks like roughly 8B in losses. Add up all 15yrs, I can't bother, a quick look shows 2x 3.3B losses, a 1.2B loss, many ~500mil losses that eat any 500mil gain year. Again, making 660mil TTM (trailing twelve months) is worth more today why? When will they make 6B NET INCOME? 10x 2009 income, would be 10x 2009 share price (discount 2x dilution etc...ROFL), so maybe $80 if you magically were making 6B today and magically bought back 1/2 your shares by 4pm today ;) I could keep going...Sell AMD lunatics. Buy INTC making 2.5x 2016 NET income (11B vs. 23.6B today) when shares were 38. Stock should be above $80 as shares have been bought back every quarter since 2008 (only one Q in 12yrs went up). 2008 shares outstanding were 5.7B, today 4.2B. Thus easy to see $38 x 2.x + buybacks = probably closer to $100. If Intel posts a 24B+ year next year explain to me why it isn't above $70 from Jan2020? This Q dampened by corona etc, but we're coming back and their income isn't ~12-15B all of the sudden is it? NOPE.
Stock is a bargain at $52 still making 23B and still saying full year great (despite Q3 not too good I think). They took a massive haircut on fake fab news that is really over at this point knowing Intel is holding TSMC chips in hand, not even mentioning Intel about a year ahead on 3 types of packaging tech that could change things quickly anyway. It is a pity AMD took 3yrs to charge more. Intel would have gladly never reduced prices. That said, wait for the Q report, any bad news will end with it IMHO and you may get a decent discount before exploding next year as Intel won't be losing net income for 2021 so stock goes above 70 previous high by next xmas, and Q1 2022 probably hitting $100 at some point (sooner if Net income hits 25B+?). We're not talking AMD here, this is real INCOME. For any PRICE whiners on cpu or gpu: Just buy 3-5K Intel in the next month and laugh next year with FREE xmas PC. Smart people got it at $43 on fake fab news like Intel was out of business or something. Start making NET INCOME LISA SU or give back some of that 59mil salary. Your console love is killing AMD every freaking year it exists.
Spunjji - Friday, October 9, 2020 - link
I was waiting for this inevitable post from TheJian. It's especially ironic on an article where a bunch of the comments are complaints that AMD have... *drumroll* raised their prices.Some people can use a whole lot of words to say very, very little.
Qasar - Friday, October 9, 2020 - link
i read his posts as blah blah blah blah.. rant rant rant rant.. and riddled with pro intel garbage to prove how much he loves intel.completely inconsequential.
TheJian - Saturday, October 10, 2020 - link
I hope you don't own AMD, about to pay for another ATI...LOL. Not pro Intel, pro making money on the stock until I can't then hate it ;) Just like AMD now, Nvidia now...Owned both just before Intel...So...I care about making money on my money so chip prices mean NOTHING to me, and I don't have to whine like the rest of you about $50-100...LOL. OMG they raised prices so they maybe can make some net income to support that $80+ share price even thought they make income today for a YEAR that is less than a SINGLE quarter from 2009 with double shares outstanding etc etc etc...Jeez the case is awful here. I see no data from anyone debating me. Thanks, I'll check again tomorrow. Nobody downing data yet, thanks that's the point of the posts :)Qasar - Saturday, October 10, 2020 - link
yea ok, bla bla bka bla blaSpunjji - Sunday, October 11, 2020 - link
Yup. If he's not waffling about stonks, he's tugging himself off for his ability to waffle about stonks.Teckk - Friday, October 9, 2020 - link
Yeah, he would also rant about CEO pay somewhere in there I guess. Best to ignore.TheJian - Saturday, October 10, 2020 - link
You don't like making money I guess.https://islamreigns.files.wordpress.com/2019/01/pa...
Learn to debate or just STFU :) When will this site get a dang block button for fools like this.
Spunjji - Sunday, October 11, 2020 - link
It's bold of you to assume that you made a point worthy of refutation. 🤭TheJian - Saturday, October 10, 2020 - link
Clearly, yes, for you best to ignore. You don't own stock, or CEO pay would bug you at this level for this income vs the rest of the list of S&P top ten CEO's.https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/hi...
Look at the NET INCOME of all the other companies on the list BELOW her...LOL. IF you don't get the point...Best to ignore you always. You will cost people money on stocks :(
https://islamreigns.files.wordpress.com/2019/01/pa...
No debate from you either...You can't debate my points I guess, thanks, I post just to see if anyone can down the data. You made it to maybe 2 or 3? Rant sounds like tone, I'll give you lvl2-3 but it's weak at best as you didn't even make a point. Best to ignore people who ignore data. Was my CEO pay comment out of line, or accurate? Everyone on the list is killing AMD's income. The guy in the 10th spot made 1.7B for his millions (far below hers at only 30mil). Make a billion already AMD at least for the year! This isn't 2009!
Debate the data or STFU? ;) What is the point of your post exactly? CPU share 20% but income isn't going up a buck vs. previous years. Hmmm...Yeah, she's worth it. EEtimes gave her Executive of the year for 2014, she was hired Oct 2014 (hired at AMD 2012). It's like an obama Pulitzer for something he can't even name, while donald has 3 votes for REAL PEACE progress deals. It would appear she was handed designs we've seen today (takes 5yrs to make a cpu), and can't make much money on it even with winners. Most of the map we've seen since she arrived was DONE or in tapeout etc and she hasn't done much with it yet. Keller's pipeline is probably about exhausted. But that doesn't mean they can't make more, iterate on it, etc...I'm just saying...
LISA SU pushed the console crap. Look it up. She is directly responsible for wasting R&D on single to mid teen digit margins on those wasted wafers. Keller etc started ZEN 2012 (launch Q2 2017 -4.5-5yrs), while Lisa pushed diversification from 90% cpu/gpu to 60% from Oct 2014 on, and the rest is peanut junk and wasted wafers on consoles.
You should not be proud of shifting from high margin cpu/gpu to 40% products from mid teens or lower margins (AMD said single digits to mid teens, never more yet AFAIK). This is the EXACT opposite of what Intel did when short wafers (move production to server/hedt for MARGIN!). That is a FAIL and why they are not making BILLIONS per year now at 20% share. You have the WRONG 20% share, if you're making 660mil while the other guy makes 23.6B TTM on 80%. Quick math shows it should be 5-6B for AMD INCOME. You are too lazy or dumb debate me. My attacks on Lisa Su are warranted based on DATA right in front of your face. You DOUBLED your share of the cpu market from 11% 2017 (zen launch) to 20% today, but you can't hit 1B NET INCOME from Dec2009 Q? Keller etc's work is being wasted and I'm thinking his designs will be about out shortly and we'll see what comes after from Su's leadership now design wise (more console crap surely).
Dirk Meyer would be making 5B+ yearly right now on these cpus and NEVER would have OK'd console R&D until CPU/GPU income allowed it. Dirk said make kings not crap 2011 before being fired for it! Su has no idea how to deal with kings it seems. PRICE like a king if you have one. PERIOD. She's winning awards for diversity (SJW crap) instead of net income. Her income vs. AMD's makes sense now. :)
Oct 2014 she made CEO & lost 350mil. So far all Q's since she's been CEO, -376mil net income if you add up every Q that she's been CEO for. Now add up her income for 5yrs. Still don't see the point?
https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/AMD/amd/...
You can add right? That sheet and just about every other data point you can click on that site should make shareholders shake in their boots. Never mind the data you can mine on a paid stock site. Bring back the DARK MAYOR, he gets it.
Anyone thinking I hate AMD is an idiot and probably doesn't even know what I just said (Dark Mayor who?). I was an AMD re-seller for ~9yrs fighting Intel in the 90's/20's (not in Intel program)...LOL. I made tons of posts attacking intel at toms/anandtech etc over bapco crap (they owned their land, registered their domain etc..ROFL), downing Van Smith over exposing tomshwardware (they removed his name from his articles too!) etc. Not a fan of any company, especially Intel. That said, I'll take the money they'll make me in the next 18mo and fully appreciate management and how they've lost share, set revenue/income records, while losing fab race for years, short wafers, 10% market not even served, etc. That is GREAT management correct (moving to TSMC good move for a time too)? They are in a perfect storm, but managing silicon super smart to make INCOME still as if it wasn't happening. Results don't lie, people like you do. Ignore me if you hate your wallet :)
https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/AMD/amd/...
Share outstanding for Lisa SU entering CEO 750mil. TODAY 1.22B. In case you missed it, that is like taking your $100 bill in your pocket, and now it's only worth ~$60 or so. Are you taking this in? I'm trying to give you ignorant instead of stupid, but I'm leaning towards stupid with you after realizing all the data points I've given even before this post that you ignored already.
All the whiners about price should ignore this guy and start listening to people like me trying to explain how you can make money ON your money so you can work less and whine less. :) Hate every company; Love stocks that make money for you (and only for that long...ROFL). AMD is 100% hype at this income. I'm not in Vegas (well my VPN says I am now..ROFL, wait, no NY today - netherlands later...LOL), I like safe investing and no losses.
Buying AMD today at this income, shares, etc, is like betting in vegas where the house knows ALL cards and you're drunk. I fully explained why this is not good to buy, but you love the company (why? Work there?), so can't swallow facts/data.
More data for you guys, so attack my data people, if you can. Nobody can read everything, so these posts are to see if anyone can poke holes in data. I'm searching for a way to buy AMD at some point, but just can't see it until a crash or Billion+ NET INCOME Q's. Oh and I prefer at least 4 in a row to prove direction at this point AMD (a year!). I think servers will make it worth $80 at some point maybe (5nm/3nm?), but they are priced as if making 5B heading to 6+ NOW rather than 2-3yrs away. I can't risk that much VEGAS (owned AMD not long ago BTW).
FWIW my mom made $900 in a day on AMD a week or two ago...ROFL. WE don't hate them, but I scolded her and so did my dad. He likes data, but my mom's excuse for buying AMD? It was going up today...WTH? I almost blocked her PC at the router. My dad freaked (two retirees). I told her if she ever does that again without proof of WHY, I'll destroy her PC and shut her down for life. That inheritance is mine and she's gambling with it (lost 2K on apple the next week...WTH are you doing? Same reason). In that debate, she couldn't see 900-2000 is a loss, not a win for the week and I hate day traders! Anandtech forcing me to cut post...LOL.